The Equality Fallacy – Why Supreme Court Should Be Closed First

supreme-court

Recently in all its judgments, the Indian Supreme Court has upheld equality and showed us how the Indian constitution upholds ‘equality’ in all aspects. Equality has become the sole reason to ban age-old customs (in Sabarimala) and even scrap laws and redefine our social relations. It is said that since Indian constitution upholds ‘equality’, husband and wife should be considered equal (while husband continues to maintain the wife either good or bad). In page 8 of the 243-page judgment on scrapping IPC 497, Supreme Court stated-

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“It was argued that clause 3 (of article 15) should be confined to provisions which are beneficial to women and cannot be used to give them a license to commit and abet crimes. We are unable to read any such restrictions into the clause.”

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In other words, the court thought that the constitution makers were morons who did not want to punish women for committing crimes. If that happens, then the country will lead to anarchy. Since the Supreme Court has stated this, that they are unable to see a provision that can stop women from committing crime, it becomes even more dangerous. Question is, do women now have open license to commit crimes? If this judgment is not a dictatorship (I am a judge, I do whatever I want) then what it is?

However, I have already shown how even the provision of Article 15 (3) of Indian Constitution is limited and how there is an existing provision in the constitution itself, that limits the use of Article 15(3).

Read – Article 15(3) of Indian Constitution, When Exception is The Rule

So, in this article let’s first assume equality, and henceforth we should only assume equality in this article.

Courts Are Not Equal in First Place

Question is, when all Indians are ‘equal’ and equality is so sacrosanct, then why having courts in the first place? If we are equal, how can any individual (read judges) even run our trials? Isn’t the whole system of courts, judgements, punishments etc. fall flat in front of ‘equality’.

In fact, if we look into our existing courts we will see that this so-called patriarchal chauvinism exists to the maximum extent in our court system. There are so many courts at different levels. Lower Courts – upper courts – district courts – high courts – supreme court. There are lok adalats, consumer courts and what not. Question is when the constitution says, we are equal, how can these people who are known as judges, even exist? There’s a strong hierarchy present not only in courts but among judges and also among lawyers. A junior lawyer never considers him equal to a senior lawyer, junior judges need to listen to senior judges and senior judges to special benches. There is hierarchy existing in all such benches as well. A small bench can’t overrule a judgement given by a bigger bench and so on.

So, when our courts talk about ‘equality’ and show that this moronic concept of ‘equality’ overrides all other constitutional provisions, they themselves don’t follow equality in the first place. In fact, chauvinism is most prevalent in our courts.

If We Are Equals, Why Courts?

Since, now we know (after the recent judgments on IPC 377, 497 and Sabarimala) that equality overrules everything else, from now on we should not abide by any ruling given by any court because if we are truly free and independent then all courts should seize to exist with immediate effect and all past ruling or law should become null and void.

Since we are all equal, we should henceforth call all judges including the Chief Justice of India with their first names, like Deepak, Indu etc. No special salutation like “Honorable”, “Mr.”, “Your Honor” or “His Highness” etc. to be added. No one should be ever booked for any offence for not obeying any court order or for not respecting these judges or courts. Because they are all unconstitutional (since equality overrules all provisions).

So, I will now show you how Deepak, Indu and others (all courts and judges) keep fooling us with their own definition of ‘equality’ and how they actually don’t believe in equality but uphold their supremacy and dictatorship since they are not punished for their errant behavior.

Why Hierarchy in Any Institution?

If we look around, we will find a hierarchy in place in every institution. Be it a small shop, public/private enterprises or government/quasi-government bodies. Even in our parliament, in ministries and in other state bodies, there is a hierarchy in place. If we are all equals, then why this hierarchy? Why the Prime Minister is considered ‘prime’ and why the ‘President of India’ is the first citizen of India? If we are equals then let’s demolish all these age-old patriarchal concepts of hierarchy and be equal in the true sense? Article 15(3), as morons keep repeating, is not even valid here because these positions are occupied by males.

If nothing of these can be done and there can’t exist any institution without a legitimate hierarchy in place, and if all that I said so far sounds like taking human civilization back to the primitive age, then you are agreeing to me and refuting the Supreme Court verdicts that our constitution wanted ‘equality’. Deepak, Indu and all other judges in that Supreme Court building and in their plush bungalows with Z category security may be busy thinking why should they get any special provision at all?

But they are unlikely to do any of these because they are now dictators. They know that the words on ‘equality’ that they say in their judgments are all farce. ‘Equality’ can never exist anywhere. That is why we have seen socialism falling down and Deepak himself doesn’t believe in this. The recent controversy around preparing judges’ rosters showed us how much chauvinism he carries. Remember how much chauvinism he showed about the Chief Justice being the sole decision maker in preparing judges’ rosters?

Why Husband/Wife Can’t Be Equal

So, it is seen that Supreme Court judges Deepak, Indu and others do not actually believe in equality but they force the basic unit of society, named ‘family’, be based on equality, which is not possible for obvious reasons. If family as a unit of the society becomes a partnership of equals then that structure is sure to collapse leading to the collapse of this society. As happened in Kibbutz society in Israel. That society was set up on egalitarianism and stopped using the word ‘BAHL’ (a word in Hebrew that means ‘Master’ and is used for husband). But after ‘enjoying’ egalitarianism for 50 years, their grandchildren started using the word again and went back to the traditional family system.

Read more – Why Kidbutz Society Rejected Egalitarianism

This seems impossible under current scenario because if husband/wife are considered equal, then no one should be entitled to any protection from the other, they should become indifferent to the other person’s existence. But our courts continue to give a ruling to show why a husband should maintain a wife etc. If we are equals, courts as external entities have no right to interfere in our personal lives in the first place because they should seize to exist. Also, if in a relationship if one person is supposed to maintain the other and take care of the other, he becomes the ‘head’ of that unit automatically.

A family becomes a unit when the members of the family act as a unit. To act as a unit there needs to be a clear hierarchy in place like any other institute or organization. Otherwise, everyone in a family behaving their own way, is sure to invite disaster. Personal independence, freedom etc. get curtailed in any form of society. The very fact that our courts want to establish their ruling on us itself shows curtailing of our independence.

Courts Do Not Mean Equality

‘Equality’ is good only in judgements and in utopian socialist theories and not is possible in practice. Our courts surely do not follow or mean equality in the first place. If you disagree, try doing some obscene act in any court in India or call the judge by his name in his courtroom. See what happens. Immediately, all patriarchal chauvinism will break loose (even if the judge is a female). Don’t blame me for consequences as you are the one who didn’t believe me in the first place, that courts actually don’t mean ‘equality’ at all. It’s all about dictatorship unless you believe every society needs a structure in place and so are our families.

If US citizens could do this after appointment of Kavanaugh who was ‘accused’ of sexual misconduct by a woman, why shouldn’t Hindus do this to Indian Supreme Court after the Sabarimala verdict? Can any Hindu even reach that close? – #Equality

Why Supreme Court Should Be Closed

Indian Supreme Court should be closed down because it has failed to interpret the constitution to the betterment of the society and for their hypocrisy around ‘equality’. Because if we are equals, why courts? Why government? Why any society? So, from these judgements that talk about this moronic concept of equality while upholding dictatorship of our courts, I learn that it’s the Supreme Court that needs to be closed first to uphold equality.

Euqality is only good as long as the Supreme Court judges and the power structure can retain their power in most autocratic way while they keep talking about equality.

@Deepak, want to debate it out in any live open forum of your choice as equals and without any chauvinism that you keep talking about in your judgments? Let’s play equal-equal. Are you game?

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17 comments

  1. Solid argument Partha, off late you have improved a lot in terms of logic and probably have better control over emotions. I have gone through this phase and come out of it. I still use similar arguments, but I stay away from challenging the power structures of society. One can call me coward, but I don’t mind that, as cowardice can be seen as wisdom in this rapidly deteriorating Kaliyuga. All the Best Man for your fight… By the way I have developed restraint and control over my anger over leftist proliferation and feminist non-sense gripping us ever so tightly, because I am confident of my understanding of the underlying mechanism that is driving these political changes, which will create further polarization between left and right creating explosive potential difference, akin to 2 terminal of a high voltage battery OR will make the world dud, akin to a dead battery where there is no potential difference between the 2 terminals and everything is equal.

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  2. Husband and wife are not superior, inferior or equal to each other… just unique.
    When there is mutual respect, sense of righteousness, willing to be fair and have consideration of each other, no heirarchy will be needed. There is a saying in telugu that says whether there is financial stability or not there should be harmony between the couple. According to you freedom and independence will be misused, in the same way the one who feels is the head of the family or superior will also misuse it. We have all seen that too. Husband and wife should be a team and work together.
    How can we compare the hierarchy at work place with hierarchy in family. The Judges are talking about equality when it comes to fundamental rights of people. There is a difference between basic rights of a person and being a Judge which is based on their education and their capability at work.
    A few days back we got a quote about women being superior and couple of my friends agreed that ‘Yes’ we are superior. I asked them why should we feel superior and they replied that they work outside and they do household work and take care of kids and in laws and in comparison to their husbands, they do a lot more. So they feel superior. I asked them aren’t we doing the same mistake that men did before. They felt superior because they were the breadwinners, should we be doing the same mistake. These ladies do live with in laws and do all the household work and manage their jobs too. The discussion went on for an hour and neither of us could convince the other.

    When it comes to maintainance, a woman or man who did the household work should get the maintainance from the other when separated. Maintainance should be the responsibility of whoever is working(only when the other contributed to the family through household work) and if both are working no one should be giving maintainance to the other.
    We need men’s commission, punishment for those women who filed false cases, and both parents should be given joint custody of the kids.
    We should be fighting for the above not for heirarachy. Hierarchy worked long back when there were child marriages, that was the teenage when daughter in laws were willing to learn and follow the mother in laws. School, college were not important for girls at that time and expecting all this now doesn’t make any sense. You cannot expect a women in 20s who is been told at home, school, colleges to be independent and individualistic to suddenly become subservient to a man and his family after marriage.
    Men shouldn’t feel superior because they are the breadwinners of the family when the wife takes care of the household work and women shouldn’t feel superior now that they have become financially independent.
    A husband says I am the protector and the wife says I am the one who gives birth to the child and we can go in like this fighting for who gets the control …. or peacefully just let it be a team work.
    There are cases where women want all
    patriarchal benefits and yet not do any work and just want all benefits but there are also situations were women are walking out of the marriage because they are expected to follow their husband and in laws as in olden days which is not possible now.

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    • If ‘equality’ is so sacrosanct, then discrimination even on the basis of education is not accepted. Also, Deepak didn’t talk about basic rights here, when he said, he could not find any provision that could stop women from committing a crime. This observation has far reaching implications.

      Regarding Men’s Commission – I think we need to close women’s commission and only need to have Human rights commission.

      Regarding husband and wife being unique – read my article on Kidbutz society, you will know why they can’t be unique and need to have a heirarchy. Today, children are not equal to their parents, that’s why they are protected. If Kidbutz society went back to traditional families of husband as head, why can’t others? They were more egalitarian from start than we are.

      “Family head being coercive to others” – That’s why we need to uphold value system, not like what everyone is doing in the name of liberlism. When people have too many choice, they normally have rotten lives. No team (read family) can suceed with all members having different goals. When that happens, then a fate as the kidbutz society in Israel happens.

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  3. Women or caste reservations are to be removed. The kidbutz is an extreme scenario… they didn’t marry and their experiment is completely different. I have seen families where they are like a team and both are doing great. Wonderful harmony between them. I have scenarios where one of them works and situation where both work. Neither of them have superior feeling. Both compromise at times and both have strong will to make the marriage work. What they don’t have is ego and superiority feeling. If only one person’s goals are considered the other will feel suffocated and suppressed. For extreme goals and differences, these need to be discussed before marriage. If you make a decision to marry based on looks, education(academics without considering morals and emotional quotient and family values) and money, one would be disappointed later. If priority is given to sensibility, morals and personality traits of that person, then that couple would understand each other, willing to compromise at times and will be committed to make the marriage work.

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    • So a team is never about the leader’s goal alone. The reason even today husband needs to be the ‘head’ is because in our families they are older and working in higher positions (earning more). Now, Indian women have ‘NO’ responsibility in their families. In that case, whatever a woman does in her family is her wish, whereas a husband is responsible for everything. So, a husband becomes the head / leader and his wishes should be considered of prime importance. The families where you think both work as equals, may have internal power structure defined. That is between them and not for outsiders to look at.

      Coming to the point of marrying based on moral values etc., getting a person like that and understanding in advance that she will be of moral value is a big problem. This is particularly true for women today becuase they can do anything and get away with it. So, women in particular can’t be trusted. Men on the other hand don’t have that option only. If we punished women equally then we could have had some trust on women (as even due to fear of law they will behave). Actually the main problem goes back to Supreme Court in particular that has failed miserably in enforcing laws, and with such weird observations like our constitution didn’t give any provision to punish errant women, is good enough to think that they are our biggest enemy.

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  4. Women mature faster compared to men and hence the age difference . https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.mic.com/articles/amp/111226/science-explains-why-women-are-faster-to-mature-than-men. When it comes to taking the decisions who is older or high earning shouldn’t be reason to make them head of the family. Yes if that women is doing nothing towards the family then agreed. But otherwise earning money is no way greater (I feel that way as I I have worked for 10 years and stayed home for 10 years) than adjusting with in laws, cooking, taking care of kids etc…these are priceless and the women or men who do all these are in no way inferior to the person who is earning. The man is earning more than a woman, as he could completely concentrate on his career, while the woman giving birth and taking care of kids cannot put her 100% on her job and that should be no reason to be inferior to man. I know very well that we can put our opinions out here based on our experiences but can not convince each other. That only time and more exposure can do it. Girls with good morals are still there. Just have to take time and change our thinking and cut down on expectations and you fill find them. As far as punishing the woman is considered, even most men are not not willing do it because they think sending the mother to jail will affect the kids and the children will develop more anger towards the father. So a man to file cases against his wife , he needs to consider the greater good at the cost of his children. Faced with similar situation in my family, we fought the cases for years and didn’t give in so not to encourage such behavior. We even filed cases against “her” but not taking seriously as the father doesn’t want the kids to be affected. I do feel that if the mother is punished, then the kids wouldn’t do the same mistake but again I am not in his shoes. Similar situation with other people who went through the same situation. It is easier for those without kids to take these cases seriously. It is a shame that the Judges who support equality are not supporting equality when it comes to punishing the person who filed false cases and has harassed the whole family. It is even more shameful to see that they are not taking it seriously even when a man suicides or has lost his parents in this process of dealing with false case filed at them.

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    • Nowadays, how many families actually have in-laws. How many women have multiple kids, or work without any maids? If women mature faster and hence an elder man needs to consider himself as ‘equal’ to the woman he provides for and protects, then why women are considered as criminals at a lower age compared to males. In fact, a minor boy can be accused of raping an adult woman. So, the supreme court or our law actually doesn’t blv that woman mature faster (I blv you). So, the law should not talk about considering them as equals. The reason we can’t consider children as ‘equals’ to parents (but Sweden wants to ensure equal rights for children). When elders are considered as equals to minors then a whole lot of problems start in social life. All lose dignity. Women start thinking of them as superiors (as they are equal to elders) and disrespect everyone.
      Household work is nothing if there is no child involved. (I agree raising a child is full time responsibility). I do both and without any maid. Why should women who stick to the home, doesn’t have children or in-laws (modern urban families) be considered equal to the man who is not only older, but contribute in all possible way? Moreover, the man under these circumstances is required to maintain a woman who may be qualified.
      The concept of equality is good only in books and in theory, we are not equals and can’t be equals. The basic unit of the society can’t be based on equality, because free and equal people will want to be independent and children will not have the love and affection of the family. The fact that children are not equal, keeps them protected and also punished for wrong doing. I was punished many times by my mother in my childhood and today I love her the most. If I ever considered myself as ‘equal’ to my parents then I would have hated them. If the person who is contributing more to a family is not respected or if there is no fair mechanism to punish errant behavior, then the society is sure to collapse. And Supreme Court is leading us to that by making us liberals and trying to think that we are equals, when we are not. Reason good enough to close down this patriarchal monster.

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      • I am 42 and have friends(school, Inter, college, after marriage) who are between 41 and 43. Half of them live in India and half in different countries. Those in India live with their in laws. Among those who are suffering with in laws have already decided that their daughters will live independently and will not go through what they have gone through. Some of them work and some don’t! Some went though a lot and some of them comparatively less.. but there are some who are very happy with in laws and vice versa. One of them lost her mother in law and she takes care of her bed ridden father in law like a baby. Those women who are happy told me that they were treated as a daughter and their husbands treated them as equals. I suffered a lot with my in laws. I don’t have a daughter(even if I have a daughter I will not tell her to not to live with in laws but I will surely tell her not to choose a family with a patriarchy mind set) but I do tell my son to always give importance to what is right over age, emotions etc.. it has been a couple of years that I did not talk to my son about this topic and I asked him recently, what will you do you when you get married and some differences arise between me and your wife. He answered “mom I shall standby who is right regardless of age, no wife no mother… whatever is right”. He made my day. I distance myself from elders who are not right and are egoistic and have superiority feeling. I will encourage someone who is 20 years younger to correct me if I am wrong. Children are protected because they are minors and are growing up. But eventually when they are 18 or 21 or maybe a little later, but eventually we all want them to be independent and have a mind of their own. But what about a woman?. According to your logic, woman will never have her independence or individuality until the husband or in laws are living. So she has to wait for that day to get her individuality and independence? This is nothing but suppression throughout their life. This will lead to more feminism and desire to control men and who in turn want patriarchy to control women. This cycle will repeat unless we treat each other with mutual respect. These days men are marrying women who are older than them and earning more too. Will they be ready to give their wives upper hand in their marriage based on age and earning. NO. I know of close relatives who have married doctors and these women don’t dominate their husbands and I admire the way both of them correct their own parents when one tries to get upper hand over the other.
        Lord Krishna tells Arjuna who hesitates to fight with his uncles to give importance to what is right over emotions or age. Apply the same to the family. Encourage every member to speak up, discuss and follow what is right regardless of age. If I followed your rule and followed my husband and in laws blindly keeping their age in mind, I would have made so many mistakes. I actually made mistakes coming under their pressure but then got back to my original self. I stood up against circumcision as I felt it’s cruelty, I fought back when he wanted to decide which car I have to buy(with my own money, as I wasn’t interested in an expensive one). I never told him which car to buy for himself. He hated that I did not follow him blindly like a puppet. Many more like this and worse. When I worked, I paid bills equally for all expenses. But we would only go on a vacation of his choice! I am nature loving and he is luxury living). So what do I do? I go with my friend’s now(from financial support given by my parents and some savings of mine) to places I like. So why can’t he consider my interests? Because of patriarchal mind set that the women should completely mould herself accordingly to her husband and in laws with no individuality. If there is mutual respect and understanding we could alternate a vacation based on his interest and my interest. No need of head of the family, upper hand or superiority as that will be misused. I stayed home and left my job to work with my son who has learning difficulties. He is very close to getting independent now and I looking forward to get back to work again:).
        Basically, morals and ethics are degrading regardless of gender. We are giving more priority to superficial stuff and academics with no time to discuss about right and wrong with kids. Recently a girl in Rewari has been raped by a group of men and among those is a army man who was helped by the girl’s father. Not that the rest of them who were not helped by the father are better than him in any way,but at least not for a second didn’t the thought come to his mind of how he could hurt the daughter of the person who has helped him.
        I myself made a wrong choice when it came to my marriage. I considered myself good looking(we develop this image of our looks based on what others say at school college etc ) and I wanted to marry someone good looking and that was my priority. I faced the karma of my choice of not giving importance to personality traits and in laws mentality. Where there is ego and superior feeling, there will no place for true love and affection and consideration for the other.
        There are lot more reasons to believe what I say but I have already put up my life here that I prefer not to. Keeping my life aside I have spent a lot of time over years analyzing on these issue and observing relationships of others too very closely. What I understood is when the woman and her parents or the man and his parents want an upper hand in the relationship and are egoistic and manipulative and feel great about the controlling the partner,the whole mess begins…and some fight back, some give up and suffer silently, some walk out, and some die..

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        • Please write in brief so that people actually feel interested to talk. All that examples you have given in initial section, is not true. People stay away from their homes and mostly their parents don’t stay with them or occasionally visit them. I am working in this field for last 9 years and have seen cases from all over India besides my personal experiences. In many cases wives force their husbands to live alone, get separated. I am not saying that everyone should live together. Even I have differences in opinion with my parents. So, a girl new to the family may also have differences and hence want to stay separate. I actually don’t see a problem unless that is forced within a few days of marriage. Nowadays our patience level has come down due to different reasons. One reason being, women need to work for economic reasons because corruption has led to a pathetic deterioration of our lives.

          Coming to equality in a family, our traditional families survived inequality for ages without any problem. But when greed took over humans, then hell broke lose. That is the reason our value system should be upheld. It is degraded due to the wrong sense of equality. As I said, children are not equal that does not mean they are not loved. That is why they are secured. If women want equality, they should not demand security from the husband. Be truly independent. So the point is spouses not being equal does not mean they should not respect each others wishes. In my married life I took care of all her wishes, I shared equal responsibility at home as well, Many of my friends did the same, but those women’s demands never ended. Problem with equality is women think they should automatically get everything without any contribution.

          So, if you talk about any woman who takes care of family etc, then she should get all benefits but not otherwise. But in general when we say husband and wife are equal and promote all sorts of inequality through judgments and social norms, then families are sure to break. That is what we see today. A woman who is economically independent does not need anyone in her life because women look for security in their relations. That is why women who are highly placed in corporate do not get married, they don’t feel that anyone can take care of them and when we are equal why should a man take care of an equal woman? Let her rot in her independence.

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        • Everything I wrote in the initial section is true. I do not lie. Anyways, I will be brief and end it here. Inequality was not fine before either. But women who suffered were not independent and those times were different to fight against inequality. They had no support. I had to say what I had to say and I shall leave it here. My dad has dealt with many cases where he has helped women in abusive marriages. This was 20 years ago. Now we see that there are men and women equally suffering.. there are women like you who don’t want to believe men are suffering and men like you who don’t want to believe women are still suffering. So I end it here.

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        • So, I was speaking in general terms. Some women still may be staying with in-laws but the percentage of those is coming down. Unless there is the dependence of two individuals the union will not survive. It’s like our body, if our organs refute the superiority of our head, the body will not survive. Now why women can’t be head of a family? Then we need to give up their basic duty of nature, to reproduce. If we ignore that, then women can be the heads, but that is not natural duty. Earning money is not a natural duty. Also a hierarchy doesn’t necessarily mean abuses or listening only to the leader. If all animals living in group or in family has a clear leader to survive, then humans too need the same.

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        • 1)Dependence of two individuals is great- hence no need of head of family and should be mutual. 2)I said even women should not be head of the family, regardless of who earns more, who is older etc. Also I am not saying every family that followed patriarchy has abused their family or are not giving independence or freedom to other. But patriarchy has been misused by many persons over generations. Women didn’t have any support or could create a site like yours to share with others. Lot of women still don’t know that men get harassed and when I tell them, they think I am exaggerating because of what happened to my family. I know of women who are of my mom’s age (between 60’s to around 80’s) who spent all their life dealing with husband’s and in laws ego, and superiority behavior until their children turned around and started supporting their mother and fought with their fathers. But in the process they have lost their health, their youth and their life. How many men used to have affairs during that times(now both are doing the same) and justified it. Independence and freedom should be unconditional but yes with moral boundaries and family responsibilities. Not because men provide security and hence women should either choose security or independence. “Patriarchy has been misused” is my point. In the same way I also don’t support women exploiting on the name of women empowerment. If we ever meet(and if you are interested) please come with me to meet all my friends who stay with in laws who suffer so much because of misuse of patriarchy. I have had lot of patience through marriage but at what cost? If there was no patriarchy mindset it wouldn’t have been this bad. Most girls would say the first one year is foundation to marriage and that is destroyed when a mother in law causes problems in first one year of marriage itself so that she doesn’t lose control of son. Parents took care of us and we should take care of them but parents from both sides should not interfere in marriage lives of children unless there is abuse where the victim needs support. For any compatibility issues leave it to them to solve it. Elders should be worthy of respect. They will not be respected if they play with one’s life. I will agree one thing though. I suffered in my marriage as my mother in law tried her best to control me through various ways and I didn’t fall for it and was not ready to give up my own thinking, but there was no fear as she cannot file cases on me. But unfortunately men have to give in to their wives out of fear of harassment case. It’s not because men are spineless but the misuse of law have made them helpless. If these women are kept in jail for at least a week most of them will back out of doing such things out of fear. Also any women who is in abusive marriage will never demand huge amounts of alimony. She will walk out for minimal settlement enough to survive and to take care of kids. If any women has already has a lot of property on her name and still filing false cases on her husband , half of the property should be returned back to the husband. I still don’t get it why these women are not being punished? In my family we do not regret that we gave her independence, or freedom but we didn’t put our foot down when she misused it thinking she will turn around(and that only spoiled her) . This applies to a man too as in patriarchy he will also misuse independence added to that he will be head of the family.
          Also you cannot blame everything on feminism. It is also due to the misuse of patriarchy that many women(wonderful women) don’t support living with in laws or want to consider man head of the family. Men will not marry anymore or women will not live with in laws is not the solution. Our priorities to choose a partner should change and make it an example out there to show others. Find the right partner and if you can’t, then don’t marry. I don’t know if I have to say if I am unfortunate to face the misuse of patriarchy mind set and of feminism or it is a blessing in disguise as I can understand both perspectives. I am not against patriarchy as long as it is not misused but it will be! Yes in Vedic period, women enjoyed high status in spite of patriarchy and were considered no less to men. But that changed during medieval times. You tell me how misuse can be controlled in patriarchal family? Tell me how I could have avoided misuse of patriarchy in my own life? I only feel I could have avoided if my choice at time of marriage was based on personality traits. When you write a sentence like “let her rot in independence” it gives out a wrong message that men are against women’s independence and that is what patriarchy is about. These cruel women(who filed false cases) are not doing all this because of independence and freedom but because the generation now has lost the sense of righteousness. You can reply to this and have the last word. I would discuss further on email on this topic if you are interested as I cannot be brief on this topic:(

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        • Also I would rather not have a leader than a bad leader. When women complain of these problems, most men don’t get it and think she has security, food, clothes from her husband and yet she complains. What they don’t get is that these women have lost their zest for life because they are suppressed. They go on binge eating and gaining weight which is a coping mechanism to survive through such marriages(just as men resort to alcohol). There are very good numbers of women who live like zombies. I was a confident happy person but lost my self esteem , then slowly felt very low
          In life and then became a zombie and then back again to my original self, thanks to my parents. Did my husband and in laws hit me – NO. Did they not take care of me by providing food clothes shelter etc – NO. But I am equal to dead person if I just have to blindly follow others without my individuality.

          Liked by 1 person

  5. I somehow liked, no, rather understood your point Veena. My email id is susaant.menon@ymail.com. I am putting in my id directly here, because I think (not feel) the basic understanding that we both have are common, and we can learn much if we share more thoughts on the same and other topics. As for my take on this whole mess, it is off late more agnostic or as an observer’s detachment kind of idea. But I still harbor hope that I can help others see the merit in discussing and having awareness of the political as well other stuff happening around us that will dictate how well we and our families survive the drastic changes happening all around us. Would like to interact more if u think we should interact using email I shared.

    Like

    • 1)Dependence of two individuals is great- hence no need of head of family and should be mutual. 2)Women head of the family- NO – I didn’t say women have to be – I said no one has to be the head of the family. Regardless of who earns more, who is older etc. Also I am not saying every family that followed patriarchy has abused their family or not giving independence or freedom to other. But patriarchy has been misused by many persons over generations. Women didn’t have any support or could create a site like yours to share with others. I know of women who are of my mom’s age (between 60’s to around 80’s) who spent all their life dealing with husband’s and in laws ego superiority behavior until their children turned around and started supporting their mother and fought with their fathers. But in the process they have lost their health, their youth and their life. How many men used to have affairs during that times(now both are doing the same) and justified it. Independence and freedom should be unconditional but yes with moral boundaries and family responsibilities. Not because men provide security and hence women should either choose security or independence or vice versa.
      Patriarchy is good but has been misused is my point. In the same way I also don’t like women exploiting on the name of women empowerment. If we ever meet(and if you are interested) please come with me to meet all my friends who stay with in laws who suffer so much because of misuse of patriarchy. I have had lot of patience through marriage but at what cost? If there was no patriarchy mindset it wouldn’t have been this bad. Most girls would say the first one year is foundation to marriage and that is destroyed when a mother in law causes problems in first one year of marriage itself so that she doesn’t lose control of son. We all should take care of parents. They took care of us and we should take care of them but parents from both sides should not interfere in marriage lives of children unless there is abuse where the victim needs support. For any compatibility issues leave it to them to solve it. We can go on like this or chat through emails to continue on this or our discussion won’t end on this topic that soon. I will agree one thing though. I was able to stay strong in my marriage because my mother in law tried her best to control me and I ddidnt fall for it. I was not ready to give up my own thinking for money or through other ways she tried. But she cannot file cases on me. So I had no fear. But unfortunately men have to give in out of fear of harassment case. It’s not because men are spineless but the false cases have made them helpless. If women are kept in jail for at least a week most of them will back out of doing such things out of fear. Also any women who is in abusive marriage will never demand huge amounts alimony. She will walk out with nothing and if she has kids she might ask for maintainance enough to survive and to take care of kids. If any women has already has a lot of property on her name and still filing false cases on her husband , half of the property at least should be returned back to the husband. I still don’t get it why these women are not being punished?

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  6. I thank you for all the effort that you and your team are doing to help all those who are suffering. We did go through exactly what you went through. It is just that I don’t think patriarchy or feminism are good and hence the discussion. But that is secondary. What is important is law is not fair to men and that is a serious problem now. I thank you all and really appreciate all the efforts you are putting in to get justice for men and their families who are suffering cruelty. Really hats off to you for all this effort.

    Like

  7. Tough for me to write on this topic briefly:(
    1)Dependence of two individuals is great- hence no need of head of family and should be mutual. 2)Women head of the family- NO – I didn’t say women have to be – I said no one has to be the head of the family. Regardless of who earns more, who is older etc. Also I am not saying every family that followed patriarchy has abused their family or not giving independence or freedom to other. But patriarchy has been misused by many persons over generations. Women didn’t have any support or could create a site like yours to share with others. I know of women who are of my mom’s age (between 60’s to around 80’s) who spent all their life dealing with husband’s and in laws ego superiority behavior until their children turned around and started supporting their mother and fought with their fathers. But in the process they have lost their health, their youth and their life. How many men used to have affairs during that times(now both are doing the same) and justified it. Independence and freedom should be unconditional but yes with moral boundaries and family responsibilities. Not because men provide security and hence women should either choose security or independence or vice versa.
    Patriarchy is good but has been misused is my point. In the same way I also don’t like women exploiting on the name of women empowerment. If we ever meet(and if you are interested) please come with me to meet all my friends who stay with in laws who suffer so much because of misuse of patriarchy. I have had lot of patience through marriage but at what cost? If there was no patriarchy mindset it wouldn’t have been this bad. Most girls would say the first one year is foundation to marriage and that is destroyed when a mother in law causes problems in first one year of marriage itself so that she doesn’t lose control of son. We all should take care of parents. They took care of us and we should take care of them but parents from both sides should not interfere in marriage lives of children unless there is abuse where the victim needs support. For any compatibility issues leave it to them to solve it. We can go on like this or chat through emails to continue on this or our discussion won’t end on this topic that soon. I will agree one thing though. I was able to stay strong in my marriage because my mother in law tried her best to control me and I ddidnt fall for it. I was not ready to give up my own thinking for money or through other ways she tried. But she cannot file cases on me. So I had no fear. But unfortunately men have to give in out of fear of harassment case. It’s not because men are spineless but the false cases have made them helpless. If women are kept in jail for at least a week most of them will back out of doing such things out of fear. Also any women who is in abusive marriage will never demand huge amounts alimony. She will walk out with nothing and if she has kids she might ask for maintainance enough to survive and to take care of kids. If any women has already has a lot of property on her name and still filing false cases on her husband , half of the property at least should be returned back to the husband. I still don’t get it why these women are not being punished?

    Like

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